JPIV in winter 05/Spino returns...

Edgar · Post by **Edgar** » 17 Jul 2004, 20:50

The rumor about water dinos is false and spawned from one of Sean Archer's endless lies @ Dans page. Most of the stuff @ IMDB about JP4 is false to and is based on Sean's "JP4 FanFilm"

/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

i give everyone permission to kick him in the nuts

Deepu_ravi · Post by **Deepu_ravi** » 18 Jul 2004, 00:02

i think that an 8 tonne elephant can run at a speed of 30mph.if that is the case i think a t-rex can run at 35mph with superior leg structure.

Dino_Slayer · Post by **Dino_Slayer** » 19 Jul 2004, 13:40

Nagisa wrote:QUOTE Horner has logical reasons for why he thinks the spino is a predator,

That's questionable. Spinosaurus' closest relatives (Baryonyx & Suchomimus) are known fish eaters; they stalk riverbeds looking for fish, crocodilians, and maybe juvenile or small dinosaurs as food sources. They likely didn't go after large prey, nor did they have the strength to. Their jaws were relatively weak and the teeth were cone shaped (easy for prey to wiggle free) and not very deeply set in the jaw. Sure, they had impressive forearms, but looking at modern-day predators, they all still use their jaws to some degree with the forearms merely serving as aids. And the Spino couldn't have been much faster than the Tyrannosaur because they were about the same size. Spino was a little leaner, but not too terribly much so.

Signs point to Spinosaurus being more a river-stalking piscivore than the ravenous killing machine the movie portrays. It very likely waded around on all fours feeling for fish with the tip of its snout a la the modern spoonbill (explains why the nostrils are set so high on the skull...so it doesn't drown while fishing).

QUOTE Their's evidence that the rex might have been a scavenger,[/quote]

Dubious and most paleontologists don't buy it. "Pure" scavengers don't exist, for one. All carnivores seek out the freshest possible kill with the least possible effort. Sometimes that means scavenging, sometimes hunting. Never strictly one over the other.

Also, that'd be a LOT of wasted equipment if Tyrannosaurus was a scavenger. The jaws, neck, and leg muscles were all incredibly powerful, and the jaws themselves could deliver a devastating, vice-like bite (whereas Spino's exceedingly thin jaws wouldn't exactly have great crushing power or grip). The teeth were strong, wide, serrated, and set very deeply in the skull, creating the ideal anchors for holding large, writhing prey while the beast snuffed its life out. The senses of smell and eyesight were very keen, which helps in BOTH predation and scavenging (Horner fails to realise that living animals have a strong scent, too).

There's also actual fossil evidence that Tyrannosaurus hunted at least part of the time. Edmontosaurus tailbones have been found broken by a Tyrannosaur's bite, but since healed (albeit crookedly). If Tyrannosaurus was a hypothetical "pure scavenger," why is he pursuing live prey?

QUOTE and scientist know for sure now that it couldn't run 35 miles an hour.[/quote]

Of course, but short bursts of twenty aren't out of the question. That's more than enough to run down its primary prey sources, anyway...large Hadrosaurs and Ceratopsians were bulkier and had leg structures much less indicative of speed, meaning a Tyrannosaurus could very well run one down even at low speed.

Remember that one Dinosaur Planet special, Alpha's Egg? Remember how slowly the Carcharodontosaurs moved? And yet they still outran a prey item? A Tyrannosaurus hunting an Edmontosaurus would likely look very, very similar.

QUOTE In JP3 Joe Johnston wanted to use a dinosaur that really stuck out as different and couldn't possibly be mistaken for any other dinosaur.[/quote]

Acrocanthosaurus atokensis could have been a superb candidate. Around Tyrannosaurus size with genuine killing ability. And with its high spine, long forearms, and more angular skull (a different colour scheme, perhaps?), it would have been quite distinctive.

QUOTE Man, you guys on this site love to kick dirt on Jack Horner's name.[/quote]

I have all the respect in the world for Horner and his contributions to the field of paleontology. However, I think his theories on Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus are completely off and blatantly ignore some rather solid research by other paleontologists. [/quote]
Did you know that you rule,Nagisa?You posted all the exact facts everyone needed to hear.I doubt Horner would be able to say anything about that. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

pack raptor · Post by **pack raptor** » 19 Jul 2004, 16:30

Good points, Nagisa. But it seems likely to me that the t-rex would have scavenged more than it hunted. For one, those tiny fore arms the rex had were only good for scratcthing its belly and neck. Two, its low and bulky structure, most predators have long lean legs for speed, rex has relatively short legs for it's size. Three, if it ever ran after some prey, and tripped over a boulder it would probably crush its own rib cage from the fall.

Although you're probably right about the spinosaurus, I bet that it hunted small land prey from time to time as well. I also think the spino could run a bit faster than the t-rex. Simply because it's body weighed a little less than the rex, and it was built for swimming. Usually animals that are built for swimming and wandering land are fast runners because swimming requires alot of physical power. Like hippos and crocidiles, they're pretty fast on land.

Anyway, I think that both the rex and the spino's physical abilities were exaggerated in the JP series. It's just that I feel that most people focus on the exageration of the spino's strength and don't even acknowelege the rex's movie enhancements because they still have a grudge with JP3.

Nagisa · Post by **Nagisa** » 19 Jul 2004, 18:40

QUOTE For one, those tiny fore arms the rex had were only good for scratcthing its belly and neck.[/quote]

Short of birds of prey, most modern day predators make scant minimal use of their forelimbs in killing, if any at all. Canines and crocodilians rely on their jaws, and felines do the same while merely using the forearms as anchors. Personally, I believe the Tyrannosaurus hunted in a semi-ambush method similar to crocodilians or solitery felines (panthers & tigers); with its sturdy leg structure, reinforced neck & jaws, and solid, anchored teeth, forearms were pretty much unnecessary. Once it grabbed a prey, it could pretty much do as it wished with it. Alternatively, it could have made a vicious headbutt-like strike like many modern salt-water crocs do, and let the prey item succumb to shock and bloodloss within the span of a couple hours. Then...kill and devour at leisure.

QUOTE Two, its low and bulky structure, most predators have long lean legs for speed, rex has relatively short legs for it's size.[/quote]

It was still better built for speed than the animals it usually hunted. Bulky though it may be (I should note that many Theropods around Tyrannosaurus' size were in the same boat...Carcharodontosaurus, Allosaurus maximus, etc.), it still had better skeletal and muscular construction than, say, Edmontosaurus or Lambeosaurus or Triceratops. Odds are, Tyrannosaurus didn't have to run full bore after everything it hunted. Again, remember how slowly the Carcharodontosaurs in Dinosaur Planet lumbered? And they still downed their quarry.

QUOTE Three, if it ever ran after some prey, and tripped over a boulder it would probably crush its own rib cage from the fall.[/quote]

This applies universally to all large Theropods. While Carnosaurs had longer arms, there's no way those could do much to break the fall of a charging, six-ton Allosaur or eight-ton Carcharodontosaur. And Abelisaurs would be in a worse position than Tyrannosaurs, since they have even shorter arms. And no matter the creature, a Tyrannosaur, an Abelisaur, or an Allosaurid with now-shattered arms from trying to break its fall, all three are going to be struggling up to their feet.

I should note that there have been fossil finds of large theropods with broken ribs from falls that since healed. Such falls weren't definitively life-threatening, it seems. In fact, one could argue that a Sauropod or large Hadrosaur falling would be in even bigger trouble.

Still, it points to larger carnivores (Allosaurus-size and upward) relying more on ambush or group strategies than all-out pursuits. And again, most of these animals' focal prey items were very likely much slower than they were, so it's not like they were sprinting at full speed after every meal.

QUOTE I bet that it hunted small land prey from time to time as well.[/quote]

Key word being small. Like a juvenile or a Hypsilophodont. It was a bit too weak to take on anything large like a mid-sized Sauropod or another large Theropod.

QUOTE Anyway, I think that both the rex and the spino's physical abilities were exaggerated in the JP series.[/quote]

Of course. I don't deny that.

QUOTE It's just that I feel that most people focus on the exageration of the spino's strength and don't even acknowelege the rex's movie enhancements because they still have a grudge with JP3.[/quote]

Well, it could also be argued that people seem to mostly focus on Spinosaurus' exaggerations because at the same time they have to defend against Horner's gross exaggerations of Tyrannosaurus' weaknesses. "Pure" scavengers are imaginary within the Animal Kingdom, and yet he keeps pushing the concept of Tyrannosaurus being nothing more than a Cretaceous Jabba the Hutt. Quite aggravating.

pack raptor · Post by **pack raptor** » 19 Jul 2004, 19:14

Damn, you know your stuff Nagisa.

Megaraptor · Post by **Megaraptor** » 21 Jul 2004, 13:18

And well don't forget the strength of those puny things

indoraptor · Post by **indoraptor** » 29 Jul 2004, 10:52

If the spino is in it (which I am 99.99% sure it won't be) then it will really suck. They would not put spino in if they would keep getting complaints. Everyone including me hates the spino. T-rex would be the star of the show. I am pretty sure you made all of this info up.

indoraptor · Post by **indoraptor** » 29 Jul 2004, 10:55

Choi wrote:Fake. Fake. Fake. Fake. Fake. Same rumor has been posted at Dan's for the last week and its been proven false. I wont believe anything till I read the official press release for Jurassic Park 4.

You are so right.

IanC · Post by **IanC** » 29 Jul 2004, 11:12

Oviraptor wrote:QUOTE With no Sam... how can you have a JP4...bleh.

Exactly, it's just another TLW:JP. /mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="mad.gif" /> [/quote]
JP3 made TLW look like The Godfather... so /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />